Tom Yum Noodles @ Muay Thai

Very close to calling Muay Thai the best place in Thaitown, sure Chat Thai and Spice I Am would have something to say about that but Muay is starting to pull out in front. I do need a number of Spice I Am visits to commit to this, but the distance involved in getting down there from the office is not helping their cause.

So when we had an old colleague come to visit the obvious choice was Muay - it also helps that it never busy so the fact is we can snag a table for 7 easily. Having said that that fact it's never really busy at all might be an issue down the line for their business.

Having jumped back on the Tom Yum bandwagon a little while ago was interested to see how Muay Thai would do here; was not disappointing.

Am disappointed by the level of lighting though. Poor photo ahead;

The key here was the lack of the Tom Yum flavour that is everywhere, I assume this is because most places are using the same brand of paste to make their soup. Muay Thai are working from scratch. The biggest clue here is the colour of the soup, more clear than the generic red-orange of tom yum paste.

Lemongrass and lime leaf flavours in the soup but nowhere near as overpowering as they are normally. Plenty of room on the palate to personalise the dish with some condiments. Vegetables were crunchy and there were even wonton sheets here, a very different soup.

With all the wet dark weather this was quite the mood lifter and puts the generic tom yum back in it's box. Muay Thai again putting most of the other stores to shame.

Where – Muay Thai

When – 03/04/13

What – Tom Yum Noodle

Cost - $10.50

With – Messrs Kim, Lim, Toll, Maynard, Calalang and Chongwattanapirom

Rating – 3.5/4

Yen Ta Fo (Dry) @ Thainatown

I've crossed blocks for this dish. From Market Street to Golburn; which, by my count, is four. Four whole blocks I used to have to negotiate from the old office to get to Thianatown for a serve of their dry Yen Ta Fo.

Why the Herculean effort? Why the struggle? Cause you can't get this dish anywhere else (that I've seen).

There has been another dry YTF tasted in the fair history of this blog at the ever reliable Chat Thai - here. But there, and most places I've been into to, serve with just a dash of soup and that is the only difference from the regular dish. Less soup.

Thainatown go the whole hog (hold the pig please) with a full on stir fry dish.

We've got the same basic ingredients here, seafood, kale and noodles but it's the different type (vermicelli as opposed to wide flat rice) of noodles that makes the dish stand out and allows it to stay a Yen Ta Fo as opposed to Generic Stir Fry No 12. The vermicelli absorbs most of the sauce so whist there is no soup here the flavor the soup brings to the dish is not missed.

All in all a top dish and unique enough to want me coming back time and time again. Only complainet was that the serve was a touch on the small side so it does lose half a point there. Think I'm still burnt from the disappointment of the Rad Na in my last post. 

Better news is that Thianatown is only a block away now.

Where – Thainatown

When – 02/04/13

What – Yen Ta Fo (Dry)

Cost - $10.50

With – Messrs Clarke, Dong, Mukai, and Chongwattanapirom

Rating – 3/4

Rat Na @ Khao San Road

I went to Khao San Road in Bangkok once, had a beer, nosed around for 20 minutes and hoofed back to Sukhumvit as fast as I could.

Looks like this restaurant in the heart of Thaitown on Pitt Street has taken after the notorious backpacker road and gone for the disappointing and kinda shit feel of it's namesake.

And so it is with great regret that I announce; worst lunch ever (well, worse lunch so far). How can you mess up a Rat Na so much. Well I think this speaks for itself;

Where are the noodles? And what's going on with the tofu? No other vegetables? Presentation is not a thing? Did I order off the kids menu? 

Come on.

This is not what I've come to expect from what is fast becoming a favorite dish; this was bland and left me hungry still - so in short it failed on every level as a meal.

Not happy.

Where – Khao San Road

When – 27/03/13

What – Rat Na

Cost -$9.90

With – Messrs Kim, Mukai, Milet, Calalang and Chongwattanapirom

Rating – 0.5/4

Paak Boohng Dtai Laow @ Chat Thai

Paak Boohng Dtai Laow? 

WTF?

I'm not sure that this is a thing. Well, I know it exists as a dish, I ate it, but have never heard of anything that sounds like this. And this is post 14.

Global had come to town (CEO, CFO and HR) so we had the customary get together after a few presentations. I did miss the 4am bender on a Monday due to flu. Lucky. But apparently word got out of the quality of Thai food in the area and I was the obvious point man to lead the charge (much to my Thai colleague's dismay, sucker).

So eight of us went to Chat Thai.

New experience here as there was eight people sharing but being the token vegetarian I got the one dish to myself as everything else that was being shared and passed around was with pig or chicken.

Can't really see from the picture here but dish is made up of vermicelli noodles, cucumber, hard boiled egg, and deep fried river prawns served with sweet chilli sauce.

Now I must say that I loathe with a passion sweet chilli sauce, it is disgusting. Only up to the time that I had this dish. Secret is not to have that crap that comes out of a jar who's whole existence is to accompany potato wedges. This was actually made in house and does contain chill (not just sugar), and what a difference that makes.

What I enjoyed most here was the textures; noodles, egg, prawn, and cucumber held together by the sauce was quite the experience. Would have enjoyed a little more heat in the food but there would have been the danger of overpowering what was already in the bowl as the flavors were quite delicate and balanced.

The school prawns we deep fried whole so you're eating brain and tail. Normally I don't go in for that sort of thing but just felt and tasted right here.

Best thing was that Global picked up the tab. Will be back for another bowl, more than happy to pay for this dish with my hard earned.

Where – Chat Thai

When – 25/03/13

What – Paak Boohng Dtai Laow

Cost - Free!

With – Messrs Clarke, Dong, Milet, Crawley, Lee, Noguerol and Chongwattanapirom

Rating – 3.5/4

Crab Fried Rice @ Thainatown

Oh right, this place is actually called Thainatown, not just plain old Thaitown. That's a little embarrassing, I've been coming here for years. Lean something new every day I guess.

One of the things that keeps us coming back here is a good old fashion loyalty card, buy ten meals, get your little stamp for each meal, hit ten; free meal. Booyah. Added in the fact that we normally eat in a group of 4 it fills up pretty fast. I'd like to say this is proof that these things work but haven't eaten here since ...(checks post history) ... 18 days ago.

Been down with the flu the last few days but dragged my sorry ass into work Friday (and not just for the Thai food, but the idea of it helped me pour myself out of bed). Needed something carbed up and plain with a chilli punch so I could actually taste anything. When feeling crap go fried rice - it's true for all Asian cuisine. And nothing is better in fried rice than crab.

Who knows what this actually tasted like. I could taste something so mission success. But that was mainly the prik nam pla (which is in shot above, and I just know you are aware that it's birds eye chilli in fish sauce) which I piled on. Fish sauce and egg are one of the best food combinations you can have, added in with the crab and chilli and it's comfort food heaven.

But what's this? Another photo??

Well if your're getting a freebie dish at a Thai place you have to get something to share so you have to get a Som Tum.

Not sure what you can say about Som Tum, it's the greatest salad in the universe. Always has been, always will be. Not quite ripe papaya shredded with carrot and pounded in a pestle and mortar with sour lime, sugar, fish sauce and chilli. 

It is Thai food personified. I've eaten it in high end restaurant at $24 a pop and I've eaten it in the backstreets if Bangkok at $1 a pop. 

It's 10am and I'm drooling thinking about Som Tum.

This one was salted egg added in, didn't do much for me in terms of adding to the dish. But then I have crazy high expectations on salted egg after that salted egg crab dish I tucked into in Penang, but that's a story for another time.

Good news is we filled up our loyalty card so we'll all be back soon. I noticed a catfish Som Tum on the menu which should be next to check out; anything is better then Som Tum Poo (for obvious reasons).

Where – Thainatown

When – 22/03/13

What – Crab Fried Rice

Cost - $10.50

With – Messrs Clarke, Dong, Kim, Mukai, and Chongwattanapirom

Rating – 2/4

Tom Yum Noodles @ ChonSiam

ChonSiam has the be the closest thing in Sydney to eating on the streets of Bangkok. It's a hole in the wall, there are only a handful of tables, the menu is limited, serves are quite small and the food is spicy.

Place was packed and I was the only white person. It's all great stuff.

One of my favorite things about this place, and a real sign that it's 'locals' only, is the fact that the set of condiments is on every table, there is not just one or two floating around that you have to ask for before they get whisked away halfway through your meal. One per table - Bangkok street style.

This also ties into the fact that everyone has the $4 boat noodles. $4. That's crazy cheap. Me, I had the Tom Yum Noodle soup (which I've been threatening to have since my Tom Yum fried rice back in post 3)

"No pork or chicken" I said, complaining, as my lunch was presented, that includes minced form. It's still meat you know. But it was ok, it was just some deep fried garlic, which really pushed this dish along by adding a little crunch to the soup.

Stock was good, nice and spicy and without that splash of coconut cream that seems to be a thing in some places. Couldn't tell if it was home made but didn't taste out of a jar so that's half the battle won Eenjoyed the fish balls and fish cake slices - now they were very much out of a packet but that just makes it really authentic.

All in all a real authentic bowl of Tom Yum, only thing missing from the full Bangkok street experience was the smog, backed up traffic, and the weather. I can live without those.

Where – ChonSiam

When – 18/03/13

What – Tom Yum Noodle Soup

Cost - $8.90

With – Messrs Dong, and Chongwattanapirom

Rating – 3/4

Pad Cha @ Chilli Cha Cha

Stir fries with sauce are good but sometimes you just can't go past a paste. 

After being told we were off to Chilli Cha Cha's yesterday I was outvoted in the elevator and we ended up at some ramen joint. I do love a good ramen (it's the vegetarian in me that loves ho'ing into the creamy pork bone soup) but; outrage. Obviously I forced through the visit today.

Chilli Cha Cha (CCC) and I go back a fair bit. In the Surry Hills days I used to have lunch here regularly on the weekend, no $10 menu on Sat/Sun I can tell you. Also been a bit of a revival recently as my occasional drinking buddy Rusty is a big fan and have ended up here on the odd Friday for the red curry paste soft shell crab (recommended) after a few pale ales.

Not a lot to the place, very canteen style but still an predominantly Thai clientele and that is really what I'm looking for most of the time.

Went with something new and ender up with a Pad Cha - 

Overall dish was very good, strong flavour from the chilli paste and an good mix of vegetables but lacking anything really standing out (such as the bamboo in my Spice I Am stir fry). Paste really was the star here and dish didn't require any additional seasoning here, flavours were pretty much all in harmony when the plate was presented.

Minor quibbles in that the the serve of rice was pretty hefty and only one strand(?) of peppercorns, young peppercorns being a thing I only discovered via Thai food that are just fantastic.

At $9.90 good value, came with a drink but no sugar water for me so I passed. Water is best drink (that's not booze or coffee). 

One of the things that have come out of the last 10 posts is that the better food in Thaitown seem to require that little extra incentive, nothing under $10 has hit full marks and just the one dish under a ten spot has scored over 3. Something to perhaps keep in mind, if I can be bothered.

Big crowd today. Table for 6 needed.

Where – Chilli Cha Cha

When – 14/03/13

What – Pad Cha

Cost - $9.90

With – Messrs Clarke, Dong, Cooke, Mukai, and Chongwattanapirom

Rating – 3/4

Yen Ta Fo @ Chat Thai

Might have to consider renaming this blog to Yen Ta Fo Adventures.

Yen Ta Fo! Yen Ta Fo! Yen Ta Fo!

Do love Chat Thai. Sure you have to wait, every-time (and this is at lunch so god only knows what it's like at 8pm), and it's noisy. But there is a reason why it is so popular; the food is great. Pretty simple really.

Did try to shake it up a little and opposed to wet (soup) I went dry. Thinking it would be stir-fried but instead it came as it would as a a soup but with only a very small amount of liquid right at the bottom. Different. Not what I was expecting.

 

Now when I first got onto the YTF bandwagon was careful to ensure that I asked for no pork, happy to take as is without the pig; so just kale, fish balls, squid, tofu, noodles and the soup. Now it comes with two types of tofu, regular and some kind of dark fermented tofu. But it turns out, after 2 years of eating this dish, that the dark, soft, stuff is actually congealed pigs blood. 

Shit. That ain't vegetarian friendly.

Have to ask to hold the pork and blood when I order now. Apart from today, as there was no pork listed on the menu I just asked for 'no blood'. So of course it came with half a pig nestling amongst the noodles.

Thankfully I'm not that fussy and there were no shortage of takes round the table for the pork, had to portion it out in fact. 

Still was excellent a great way to mix up my Yen Ta Fo obsession, will be back for another bowl, just have to remember to hold the pork AND the blood.

Where – Chat Thai

When – 12/03/13

What – Yen Ta Fo

Cost - $10.90

With – Messrs Clarke, Dong, and Chongwattanapirom

Rating – 3.5/4

Rat Na @ Muay Thai

Here we go with another first, my first double up in terms of restaurant; so big congrats to Muay Thai.

And if you read (all 5 or you) my glowing review of their Yen Ta Fo then you'll see why I was more than happy to get back down there and even try another dish. And it was not even my call to head back there, and all parties from Thursday were more than happy to head back. Seems I was not the only one impressed with Muay Thai.

Ducked the YTF (despite being sorely tempted) and went with the Rat Na.

And once again Muay Thai delivers.

Have spoken about Rat Na in my first post and it remains a dish I am very found of. This version however was unlike any other Rat Na due to the thickness of the gravy. Never seen suck a thick, dark, flavorsome gravy; strong and funky and rich.

Normally I throw the condiments all over my Rat Na but this did hold off a little this time to allow the dish, specifically the gravy, to speak for itself. Booyah.

Muay Thai is a pretty great place as well, on the block of Pitt between Goulburn and Campbell right in the heart of Thaitown. Dig the boxing gloves on the wall (despite it being a touch predictable) and love the TV's in the gold frames showing Thai shows.

There are a couple of other Thai places that have been on Pitt for a few years and hopefully Muay can carve out a spot for itself long-term. Know I'll be back, can I hold out till next week?

Where – Muay Thai

When – 11/03/13

What – Rat Na

Cost - $10.90

With – Messrs Kim and Chongwattanapirom

Rating – 4/4

Pad See Ew @ Mr B's

It was only a matter of time before the exotic stuff took a back seat and I indulged in the chicken schnitzel of Thai food; Pad See Ew. Not even sure how this gets classified as Thai, it could not be any more Chinese. 

Flat rice noodles, oyster sauce and Chinese broccoli. Come on.

Anyway it was Friday and Mr B (that's the bar) or iima (that's the restraunt) does food and a beer for $12. After being in Melboure all day Thursday I deserved the beer. Problem is then you're eating off the $12 meal deal menu where your veggie options are this or Pad Thai. 

How wild and crazy.

Not a lot of point going into this. Everyone's had Pad See Ew and this was neither amazeballs nor terrible. Loads of veggies though but did need a full whack of fish sauce and chilli (Nam-Pla Prik) to get everything happening together.

Wish they had Pad Kee Mao on the deal. Much more of a Pad Kee Mao fan, the chilli is the 'Kee'. Sorry.

Beer was good, manged to pay an extra buck and upgrade to a Cooper Pale Ale. Success. Shame Mr B's is a bit of a dump (and we had to eat on stools on a high table, I'm a standard table man) but beer and noodles for $13 is a deal so we'll be back.

Where – Mr B's

When – 7/03/13

What – Pad See Ew

Cost - $13.00 (with a beer)

With – Messrs Kim and Chongwattanapirom

Rating – 2/4

Yen Ta Fo @ Muay Thai

So here's a first. My first double up in terms of dish. 

*fireworks*

Now I said Yen Ta Fo was a favorite of mine and I was not joking. Despite the many, many options available to me and the fact I was on the YTF two days previously, here I was again.

To be fair it didn't start out this way; Muay Thai has a very impressive Issan menu and I tried to get something here but in classic Issan style EVERYTHING had pork mashed into it somehow. When in doubt go back to an old favorite.

Luckily, it was the best Yen Ta Fo I've ever had.

Soup wasn't overly pink colored, stock was spicy (it's so rarely spicy off the bat) and had depth to it, excellent collection of seafood, kale was delicious, plenty of noodles (so often they skimp on the noodles) and the serving size was spot on.

Only concern was the price here, I'm always on or around the ten buck mark so it was a little disappointing to see my cheque come in at $12.90. There is a relevant story here but need to hold back on that one for now.

Feel bad for my YTF two days previously as I've written them both up this weekend and it may have been judged harshly. However this is the whole point of this exercise, a benchmark has been established and I look forward to anyone else stepping up to the plate. Also looking forward to heading back to Muay Thai for another bowl.

Four outta four here.

*additional fireworks*

Where – Muay Thai

When – 5/03/13

What – Yen Ta Fo

Cost - $12.90

With – Messrs Kim and Chongwattanapirom

Rating – 4/4

Gang Keaw Warn @ Yok Yor

I hope this place is called Nok Noy, will have to double check (EDIT - It's actually Yok Yor and have updated as such, no idea what/who/where Nok Noy is). It's a new place on Campbell Street but more towards Elizabeth, just on the edge of 'the zone' (I'm cutting Spice I Am a break here as they can do what they want).

It's actually not the first time I've been here, I was here the previous Friday when Rusty and I were directed here by Chilli Cha Cha, who was shutting down for the night (that or they could see we'd had a few beers so they pointed us across the road to Nok Noy). The night is a bit sketchy due to the Illawara Brewing Company tap take over at the Pumphouse, but I will never forget the morning after.

Whatever I ate that night was so spicy that my pee was burning in the morning. For a (very short) while I did wonder how the hell I had managed to catch Gonorrhea but thankfully it was just the redonk amount of chilli that had been in my food moving through my body. Oh the pain. Oh the humanity.

Obviously this time I ordered something else.

Always a pleasure to have something new (even if it wasn't that great). Gang Keaw Warn is a green curry, but as more of a thick soup with beans, tofu, apple eggplant and noodles.

Now call me a Farang but I'm now so used to the 'Australian' version of Thai, where they lay the vegetables on think and fast, a few beans and pieces of eggplant ain't gonna cut it no more. Overall this meal took about 2 days off my life with the lack of veggies and the amount of coconut cream. Not that fastidious as a rule when it comes to food but I could feel the cholesterol build up after this one.

So 0 from 2 here so far (well I actually loved the burning pee dish but can't eat that all the time; it burns!)

Where – Nok Noy

When – 5/03/13

What – Gang Keaw Warn

Cost - $9.90

With – Messrs Calalang and Chongwattanapirom

Rating – 1.5/4

Yen Ta Fo @ Thainatown

Keeping a blog apparently is quite hard, am 6 days late with this entry. Gonna have to be better in finding the time for updates.

Now not eating meat is never more ball busting then when it comes to noodle soup, as traditionally there is a lot of animal that has been stewed for stock. Never is that more clear (or should that be dark and funky looking) than with Thai soups, but thankfully there are other options. One of which, and my go to soup, is Yen Ta Fo; which cannot be missed with it's pink colouring. 

As my fellow lunches were on some Boat Noodles (so much meat) I refused to be excluded from the noodles soup fun and games so YTF it was.

We used to hoof down to Thainatown a few times a year from the old office mainly for the fact that it was one of the few places that did a YTF that was dry. That is to say, stir-fried as opposed to a soup. That is my typical order but you got to mix it up (and rest assured there will be a dry YTF review here sooner rather than later).

Not a lot to say on the soup itself, pretty standard fare. Now I do have high expectations as it's on of my favourites and this was very serviceable but nothing to really stand out or crow about. I'll be back to Thainatown, but for the dry YTF.

Where – Thaitown

When – 4/03/13

What – Yen Ta Fo

Cost - $9.50

With – Messrs Clarke and Chongwattanapirom

Rating – 3/4

Pad Kra Prao @ Spice I Am

Spice I Am; I used to eat there before it was cool. When you could get a table in under 10 minutes. Good times.

Last time I waited for 30 mins, and you have to spend the time drinking in Triple Ace bar, possibly the worse bar in this hemisphere. At least they've managed to get Coopers Pale on tap.

Despite this god awful weather today we decided to hoof down to Wentworth Avenue (and whatever you might hear it was my idea) and indulge ourselves in some Spice I Am. Naturally we had to wait for a table.

Been a while since I've been here but not a lot has changed aside from a lick of paint. It's busy, noisy, cramped, and the food is fantastic.

Jumped on a classic and favourite of mine, chill basil stir fry.

That's some impressive presentation. And was matched in taste. A heads up that it was a very spicy dish from the waitress is always a good sign (what's Thai for 'Yo! I rocked 3 years living in Bangkok, bring it') and there sure was a decent bite.

Excellent selection of vegetables here with possibly the best bamboo shoots I've every had. And a pleasure to have tofu that wasn't deep fried, but flash fried in a block and then thinly sliced.

All in all it's fantastic to be heading back to Spice I Am and can't wait to check out some of the other dishes. 

Where – Spice I Am

When – 27/2/13

What – Pad Kra Prao

Cost - $10.90

With – Messrs Kim, Maynard, Chongwattanapirom, Calalang

Rating – 3.5/4

Khao Pad Tom Yum @ @bangkok

@bankok is not the best name for a restaurant, no sir. It's also messing with my blog titles that I only established format wise yesterday. Meh. Life moves on.

@bankgok is located in the bizarre space in the back of the Capitol Theater; Capitol Square. Asian restaurants in an enclosed open air conditioned courtyard whilst on the mezzanine empty computer and telco shops somehow survive on zero customers. And of course there is also an Irish pub on the corner.

So despite eating at the Japanese joint across the way in Capitol Square a number of times I've never been near @bangkok. Which turns out to be quite the shame.
Lunch was a Tom Yum fried rice; Khao Pad Tom Yum

Tom Yum was always a favorite of mine but has fallen off the menu in the last few years, was whilst it was one of the dishes I always insisted on an can only assume I've become very sick of it.

Not any more; can only imagine how difficult it can be to enure that this dish is not overly Tom Yum, or that weak so to think that someone had simply crumbled one of those hideous Tom Yum stock cubes into some rice.

Flavour was full and strong, emphasised by chucks of both lemongass and galangal and a kaffir lime leaf; key Tom Yum ingredients. The vegetables were cooked to perfection, rice was embedded with the Tom Yum flavoring and was fresh and fluffy.

I'll be back here. Tom Yum is also back on the radar and I see a Tom Yum noodle soup in my near future.

Where – @bangkok

When – 27/2/13

What – Khao Pad Tom Yum

Cost - $8.50

With – Mr Dong

Rating – 3.5/4

Rat Na @ Saap Thai

Typically this had to start with me eating alone. Not a huge fan of eating alone but sometimes you have to do what you have to do. Rest of the guys went for Korean. I don’t do Korean.

With the jingle of coins in my pocket I knew I had to go cheap and Saap Thai with their Rat Na was calling.

Saap Thai, (Pitt Street) is a hole in the wall with very little to tell it apart form from anything else. It looks like the Korean convenience store next door but with the shelves thrown out and table/chairs thrown in. The view of the car park exit of World Square doesn't help much either.

They do a good Rat Na though.

I’m new to Rat Na, had my first hit late last year at Home (note to self, get back to Home soon) and have been hooked ever since. Wide flat rice noodles and veggies lightly fried before being served in a yellow bean gravy. Looks a bit funky but is the perfect antidote to the greasy fried noodles (looking at you Pad Kee Mao and Pad See Yew) that make up a lot of orders.

In addition – and this is the kicker – the gravy allows you to add in the majestic foursome that is Thai condiments (Fish Sauce, Dried Chill, Sugar and Vinegar (with fresh chillies)) to taste.

So soft noodles/crunchy vegetables, and with a personalised sweet, sour, spicy, and salty gravy. This dish has balance happening all over the place.

A great dish and a new favourite.

Looks a bit funky as a dish, and the gravy would put people off. Luckily I have a Thai colleague who serves as a food adviser to convince me this was a thing worth jumping in. Would recommend it to anyone

Saap Thai do a veggie version at $8.50 so it’s hard to find fault. They even throw in egg as opposed to the $2 I see creeping in for egg (looking at you Home) these days. Sure the place itself is a bit of a dump but I’ve eaten in much (much) worse and the service is friendly. Specials board is in Thai, and Thai only; that’s got to be a thing.

Where – Saap Thai

When – 25/2/13

What – Rat Na

Cost - $8.50

With – Johnny No Mates

Rating – 3/4

What's This Then?

This is a blog.

In early February and our offices moved to the Cnr of Pitt and Liverpool in Sydney CBD.

The Cnr of Pitt and Campbell is well known for being the nexus of Thai activity in Sydney and must have the highest concentration or Thai shops and restaurants, and Thai folks, in the whole country.

Which works for me - I have a big thing for Thai food having lived there for 3 years and am still a regular visitor to BKK.

I had a good handle on this place when I lived nearby Surry Hills about 3 years ago but 'Thaitown' has since gone from strength to strength.

This is a guide to help me track what I'm eating, where and when, and what was good.